This was such an interesting conversation that I want to record it.
So, last night when I went to bed, for want of something better than a laugh-tracked sitcom, I put on the History Channel's Haunted History. It was about the Salem Witch Hunt and Trials and I was pretty far into it when Dave came to bed. When he asked what we were watching, I summarised:
It's the Salem Witch Hunt, and apparently, it started with some hysterical accusations by young girls against some pretty powerless women, but as it went along, more and more prominent people were accused of witchcraft. What the Magistrates seemed to favour near the end were accusations against landowners, because if they were convicted, all of the condemned witch's property -- farms, houses, livestock -- would be surrendered to the township.
This man in his seventies, Giles Corey, was accused of witchcraft, but when he was brought before the court, he remained silent and refused to plead. This was in total defiance of the court, halting the proceedings, but the Magistrates had a solution: the "peine forte et dure" -- where a person is stripped naked and a board is placed on his chest and rocks are added until he either agrees to plead or dies. Corey remained silent, and after two days, died. According to Wikipedia (but not part of Haunted History), every time he was asked to plead, Corey simply said, "More weight".
Because Giles Corey was never convicted of witchcraft, his property remained with his surviving family.
By this point, we were watching the show together and it was revealed that just before dying, Corey cursed Salem, saying that if his ghost was seen the town would burn, and if his ghost talked to someone, that person was about to die.
There have been some fires in Salem, one devastating fire in 1914 (in which some 20,000 people lost their homes, 10,000 their jobs, and a few their lives), and the ghost of Giles Corey is always spotted in the graveyard shortly beforehand.
When this part of the story was over, Dave turned to me and said, "I don't think I've ever seen a better proof against the existence of God."
"Pardon?" I said. I had no idea what he meant.
"If someone suffers like that man suffered, all so that his family wouldn't be left penniless, then if there was a God, Corey wouldn't be left roaming the Earth."
"Are you saying that because he was a righteous man, God should have plucked him straight to Heaven?"
"Yes," said Dave with finality. "If there was a God, that man would be in Heaven."
That's tough logic to argue against. "I don't think that's what a ghost is, though, is it? I don't think ghosts are condemned to walk the Earth by God but that they choose to do so. Like they refuse to go to the light or whatever."
"And if there was a God," said Dave, "He would have intervened."
All I could say was, "That's a fascinating idea. I don't think you've got any theology to back you up, but I can see what you're saying."
This has made for some interesting thinking for me: Are all ghosts proof against the existence of God? If you believe in God, can you not believe in ghosts? Could Corey's final curse against the town of Salem have condemned him, barring him from entering Heaven?
All I can conclude is that Dave's assertion does little to contradict my own beliefs: I believe there is a God the Creator but not necessarily a God the Judge. While I do believe in an afterlife, I don't believe in souls being separated between Heaven and Hell. And I do believe in ghosts -- as Earthbound souls who will eventually make the final leap into the next phase of existence.
Made for an interesting conversation anyway.
